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I’m trying to create the following:
A theme that consists out of 3 segments: Intro, Loop and End.
Then another theme that consists out of 3 segments, Shaku 1,2 and 3.

The idea is to have these flourishes play concurrent with the Loop, in a certain order, and preferrably triggered by a parameter.
In other words: the Loop is a main Battletheme, while the Shakuhachi accents indicate an increase in tension, like the character getting hurt or the enemy performing a special move.

Creating the first theme seems to work well, I have linked the segments Intro to Loop to End, set the right Bpm and in the Loop I synced to first and 3rd beat, where the Shaku-flourishes match best.

Created a start and stop segment, looped the Loop and played it in the Music Player which works now, although the Loop segment didn’t…loop.

But where I’m really lost is with the flourishes themselves.
If I understand correctly, I need to create a 2nd theme in the same cue,
and place the 3 Shaku phrases as segments in there.
Done. But I don’t understand the phrase in the manual p174: "attach the concurrent theme to a Cue". How to do that?

Apart from that, I continued following the manual and did the following:

Set the right start conditions for the 3 flourishes
Playback method: concurrent
Quantization: on beat
Set all 3 segments to "Start".
Set the correct Bpm for each flourish individually (although I’m not sure if this is needed, perhaps only for the targeted music?)

Then I linked each flourish segment to the Loop in the main Theme.
This is the closest I got to the idea "connecting the Concurrent theme to the Cue".

Yet no flourishes are to be heard, nor with multiple select audition (where I also wonder wether I should also select the Flourishes…but then in what order?), nor in the FMod music player… so of course I’m wondering:
what did I miss?

My apologies for the long mail, trying to be as clear as possible.

Big thanks in advance,

Alex

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[quote="Mephy":281lvuiz]Hi Templar,

Thank you very much for your reply.
The problem seems to be only with the Intro file.
When set to 166 Bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.65 sec
Which is not correct.
When set to 120 bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.50
Which is almost correct, the actual time being 12.516

So when I leave the Bpm at 120, all sequences play smoothly.

I use wav files, PCM compression.

That said, there’s no big problem anymore, since I got it to play the
way I want-:)

But I thought you’d like to know.

Cheers,

Alex[/quote:281lvuiz]

Thanks for the feedback Alex. If possible, can you zip up the intro file and project and send it in to support@fmod.org? That way we can check if its a media issue or bug in Designer.

cheers,
Templar

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[quote="Mephy":2aga4iam]I’m trying to create the following:
A theme that consists out of 3 segments: Intro, Loop and End.
Then another theme that consists out of 3 segments, Shaku 1,2 and 3.

[snip]

Yet no flourishes are to be heard, nor with multiple select audition (where I also wonder wether I should also select the Flourishes…but then in what order?), nor in the FMod music player… so of course I’m wondering:
what did I miss?

My apologies for the long mail, trying to be as clear as possible.

Big thanks in advance,

Alex[/quote:2aga4iam]

Hi Alex,

I’ve uploading a quick project to help you out. This project uses the audio supplied with the Designer download – you might need to reset the audio source as required.

http://52.88.2.202/files/flourishExample.fdp

This example contains:

  • 2 cues (one to start the base music, the other to trigger flourishes)
  • 1 parameter, to choose which flourish is played
  • 1 theme for the base music, with a start segment, loop and stop segment.

  • 1 concurrent theme containing flourishes.

Try dissecting this project, if you have any questions about settings, or you would like some other functionality, just ask!

cheers,
Templar

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Hi Templar,

Sorry for the delay, I sure can. I will send you a PM.

Cheers,

Alex

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[quote="Mephy":teknuaxg]I’m trying to create the following:
A theme that consists out of 3 segments: Intro, Loop and End.
Then another theme that consists out of 3 segments, Shaku 1,2 and 3.

The idea is to have these flourishes play concurrent with the Loop, in a certain order, and preferrably triggered by a parameter.
[/quote:teknuaxg]
We don’t currently support triggering flourishes by changing a parameter. To trigger a flourish, you will first need to associate it with a Cue (see below).

[quote="Mephy":teknuaxg]
In other words: the Loop is a main Battletheme, while the Shakuhachi accents indicate an increase in tension, like the character getting hurt or the enemy performing a special move.

Creating the first theme seems to work well, I have linked the segments Intro to Loop to End, set the right Bpm and in the Loop I synced to first and 3rd beat, where the Shaku-flourishes match best.

Created a start and stop segment, looped the Loop and played it in the Music Player which works now, although the Loop segment didn’t…loop.
[/quote:teknuaxg]
Check the links leaving the Loop segment. The link from Loop to End should be above the Loop link in the list, and it should have a "when targeting conclusion" condition on it. If it has no condition on it, it will always be active, and since it is above the Loop link (i.e. it has higher priority) it will be taken instead of the Loop link.

[quote="Mephy":teknuaxg]
But where I’m really lost is with the flourishes themselves.
If I understand correctly, I need to create a 2nd theme in the same cue,
and place the 3 Shaku phrases as segments in there.
Done. But I don’t understand the phrase in the manual p174: "attach the concurrent theme to a Cue". How to do that?
[/quote:teknuaxg]
It’s referring to the last paragraph in the "CREATING AND MAINTAINING THEMES" section of the manual (p173):
[quote="the manual":teknuaxg]
With the ‘Scene editor’ open, themes can be attached to cues by dragging the theme icon (the grey item in the Theme List) and dropping it onto the cue icon.
[/quote:teknuaxg]

[quote="Mephy":teknuaxg]
Apart from that, I continued following the manual and did the following:

Set the right start conditions for the 3 flourishes
Playback method: concurrent
Quantization: on beat
Set all 3 segments to "Start".
Set the correct Bpm for each flourish individually (although I’m not sure if this is needed, perhaps only for the targeted music?)
[/quote:teknuaxg]
This all looks good.

[quote="Mephy":teknuaxg]
Then I linked each flourish segment to the Loop in the main Theme.
This is the closest I got to the idea "connecting the Concurrent theme to the Cue".
[/quote:teknuaxg]
This is not correct – you need to associate the flourish Theme with a Cue. See above for the appropriate manual section.

If this doesn’t help, please send your FDP and music files to support@fmod.org so we can have a look.

Thanks,
Ben

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Hi Mephy,
Thanks for sending the data.

[quote="Mephy":1eha8m8p]
The problem seems to be only with the Intro file.
When set to 166 Bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.65 sec
Which is not correct.
[/quote:1eha8m8p]
Actually it is correct, as 12.65 seconds is the time taken for 35 beats at 166bpm. Your Intro file does not contain a whole number of beats (according to sound forge, it’s 34.627 beats at 166 bpm).

As Templar mentioned above, the stitching occurs directly on the beat (i.e. the segment length is rounded to the nearest whole number of beats). At 166 bpm, each beat takes (60 seconds / 166 bpm) = 0.3614 seconds (approx.). Now, 34 beats * 0.3614 seconds = 12.29 seconds (approx.), whereas 35 beats * 0.3614 seconds = 12.65 seconds (approx.).

This is why you are getting 12.65 seconds; it’s the closest whole number of beats to the actual length of your file.

[quote="Mephy":1eha8m8p]
When set to 120 bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.50
Which is almost correct, the actual time being 12.516
[/quote:1eha8m8p]

At 120 bpm your Intro file contains 25.031 beats. This is being rounded to 25 beats. Each beat takes (60 seconds / 120 bpm) = 0.5 seconds, so 25 beats gives 12.5 seconds.

I suggest you pad your Intro file with silence at the start. I padded it out to 36 beats (13.0104 seconds) and it works pretty well (I could have padded it to 35 beats, but 36 gives better positioning of the beats within the bar).

I hope this helps, please let us know if you have any more questions.
Ben

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Hi Templar,

Thank you so much for the quick reply and great support!
I was very curious about your flourish example, so I went into it right away. Unfortunately… I can’t get it to play?

Not in Designer, nor in Music Player.
I have relocated the audio files in the wavebank, and tried other similar files of my own too, but no result. When I audition, either single or multiple, the, little player appears, but doesn’t move. Also the scroller is stuck.
Other projects play fine.

That said, I will analyze your example anyway, but it would be great if I could hear it work-:)

Cheers,

Alex

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Wauw, that’s definitely a series of maths I dare not argue with-:)
Thank you very much for all you support and thorough explaining, this is most appreciated!

Have a nice weekend,

Alex

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Hi Ben and Templar,

I managed to make it work, thanks to your example and explanation!
What I didn’t realize is the fact that a Theme containing one or more Flourishes needs to be associated with its own Cue.

I also managed to get the main theme looping, which is great.
It had to do with the order as you described.
The one thing (for now) I don’t understand yet is the 2nd part of this sentence:

[quote:brmafyaw] The link from Loop to End should be above the Loop link in the list, and it should have a "when targeting conclusion" condition on it.[/quote:brmafyaw]

How do I set this condition? I don’t seem to find it in the manual, also I don’t understand what it means/does.

But that’s a detail, basically I am starting to get it now, thanks to your kind and swift support!

Cheers,

Alex

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[quote="Mephy":1vwgs8qy]Hi Ben and Templar,

[quote:1vwgs8qy] The link from Loop to End should be above the Loop link in the list, and it should have a "when targeting conclusion" condition on it.[/quote:1vwgs8qy]

Alex[/quote:1vwgs8qy]

Take a look in the loop segment’s list of links. The priority of the links should be:

  • Link to End Segment (with the condition ‘targeting conclusion’)
  • Loop

When no cues are active, the targeting conclusion state will evaluate as true, and the link to the stop segment will be taken. This is demonstrated in the project I made….though I did make it will an experimental build (which could be the reason it is not working for you).

cheers,
Templar

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[quote="Mephy":1rbcrexs]
I managed to make it work, thanks to your example and explanation!
What I didn’t realize is the fact that a Theme containing one or more Flourishes needs to be associated with its own Cue.

I also managed to get the main theme looping, which is great.
It had to do with the order as you described.
[/quote:1rbcrexs]
Glad to hear it’s working for you :-)

[quote="Mephy":1rbcrexs]
The one thing (for now) I don’t understand yet is the 2nd part of this sentence:

[quote:1rbcrexs] The link from Loop to End should be above the Loop link in the list, and it should have a "when targeting conclusion" condition on it.[/quote:1rbcrexs]

How do I set this condition? I don’t seem to find it in the manual, also I don’t understand what it means/does.
[/quote:1rbcrexs]
Please have a look at the "Targeting the conclusion" section in [url:1rbcrexs]http://www.fmod.org/wiki/index.php5?title=Target_Condition[/url:1rbcrexs]. That (and the pages linked from there) will hopefully explain link conditions and how to create a link with a "when targeting conclusion" condition.

Ben

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Thank you both for all the information, I’ll look into it!

Cheers,

Alex

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Hi again,

Succes 8)
I understand the Targeting Conditions now, thanks to the info you generously provided.
The Loop now keeps playing until I hit "End" in Music Player, whereafter it seamlessly transitions to the End segment. Great!

I did notice a strange phenomenon however:

The 3 pieces I used (Intro,Start,End) are at 166 BPM.
At first, I didn’t change the BPM in the Segment’s property windows.
Nevertheless, Intro went to Loop on the beat.
Loop didn’t loop correctly however.
So I entered the correct 166 BPM in all 3 segments.

That made Loop loop seamlessly, however a gap between Intro and
Loop now occured.

So I re-entered the default 120 BPM in Intro’s Segment Properties,
and kept the 166 Bpm for Loop and End.

Now it works perfectly, no gaps.
But I don’t understand the logic behind this…?

Kind regards,

Alex

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[quote="Mephy":3f3icmy8]Hi again,

Succes 8)
I understand the Targeting Conditions now, thanks to the info you generously provided.
The Loop now keeps playing until I hit "End" in Music Player, whereafter it seamlessly transitions to the End segment. Great!

I did notice a strange phenomenon however:

The 3 pieces I used (Intro,Start,End) are at 166 BPM.
At first, I didn’t change the BPM in the Segment’s property windows.
Nevertheless, Intro went to Loop on the beat.
Loop didn’t loop correctly however.
So I entered the correct 166 BPM in all 3 segments.

That made Loop loop seamlessly, however a gap between Intro and
Loop now occured.

So I re-entered the default 120 BPM in Intro’s Segment Properties,
and kept the 166 Bpm for Loop and End.

Now it works perfectly, no gaps.
But I don’t understand the logic behind this…?

Kind regards,

Alex[/quote:3f3icmy8]

Things I would check:

  • The length of the file. The stitching occurs directly on the beat – [b:3f3icmy8]not[/b:3f3icmy8] at the end of file…so if your audio file is a little short, a gap may be heard. As the size of this gap is dependent on the file length and beat location it [b:3f3icmy8]might[/b:3f3icmy8] explain why 120 BPM has no gap, while 166 BPM does.

If you change the BPM, you should press the recalc button. Also compare the length reported by Designer to that of your wave editor app.

  • If working with a compressed file format, try auditioning in PCM to see if the problem persists – if not let us know, there may be a bug.

cheers,
Templar

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Hi Templar,

Thank you very much for your reply.
The problem seems to be only with the Intro file.
When set to 166 Bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.65 sec
Which is not correct.
When set to 120 bpm (recalculate), the time is 12.50
Which is almost correct, the actual time being 12.516

So when I leave the Bpm at 120, all sequences play smoothly.

I use wav files, PCM compression.

That said, there’s no big problem anymore, since I got it to play the
way I want-:)

But I thought you’d like to know.

Cheers,

Alex

  • You must to post comments
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