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Hi all,

Has anyone ever come across this before…. sometimes on building a project the sound events become confused and you will have incorrect sounds playing on certain events (eg. gunshots for footsteps etc.) If i rebuild its fine again. Hence why I say its like they go out of "sync".

The project is building over a network not sure if thats anything to do with it?

thanks

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This happened to me again today. I’m keeping an eye out for it all the time now – but also simply rebuilding all FSB files as its a slow but sure prevention mechanism.

My steps to reproduce today were:
1. import some new files.
2. build all (via command line tool, both PC and Wii, building FEV+FSB)
3. check in game => works.
4. make some level adjustments, on 4 sounds.
5. build only FEV from in Designer (PC only).
6. check in game => wrong sounds.
7. build all in Designer (PC only).
8. check in game => works.

When I did step 5 I did it only for PC, not for Wii. By comparing files (FDP and LST files) I could see that:

  1. There were differences in the FDP file. Here’s a snippet of the diff -u between them:

[code:7buc4wof]@@ -63418,7 +63418,7 @@
<_PS3_banktype>DecompressedSample</_PS3_banktype>
<_WII_banktype>Stream</_WII_banktype>
<notes></notes>
-<rebuild>1</rebuild>
+<rebuild>0</rebuild>
<waveform>
<filename>sfx_bs_finish_move_01.wav</filename>
<guid>{d9d00770-e8d2-41b3-a56f-e32de581ca7a}</guid>
@@ -63564,7 +63564,7 @@
<_PS3_banktype>DecompressedSample</_PS3_banktype>
<_WII_banktype>Sample</_WII_banktype>
<notes></notes>
-<rebuild>1</rebuild>
+<rebuild>0</rebuild>
<waveform>
<filename>door_metal_sliding_open_01.wav</filename>
<guid>{02ce9187-1620-447a-85a3-0a44b7dff1f3}</guid>
@@ -64638,7 +64638,7 @@
<notes></notes>
</reverbdef>
<notes></notes>
-<currentplatform>WII</currentplatform>
+<currentplatform>PC</currentplatform>
<_PC_encryptionkey></_PC_encryptionkey>
<_PC_builddirectory>D:/StudioOz/TLA/GameData/Sounds/Designer/media/dx9</_PC_builddirectory>
<_PC_audiosourcedirectory>D:/StudioOz/TLA/Audio/Source</_PC_audiosourcedirectory>[/code:7buc4wof]

  1. The LST files listed the sounds out of order in exactly one sound bank, which was the one playing the wrong sounds.

Considering that the build changed only the FEV file, the contents of the FSB files could not change at step 5. However, the LST files change.

So, I’m assuming that somewhere in the build process, the LST file is created, and if the FSB is not built, it assumes the order of the files in the FSB, and sometimes gets this wrong.

Another aspect of the trigger could be that I changed the platform on the project as a whole from "Wii" to "PC", which is required from time to time when setting up wave ave banks.

So when the wave banks are not being built, why is it that the LST files are created/modified? I think this might be a clue….

I can send an archive of the FDP/FEV/FSB combo if you like… the whole project is big (~500MB) but perhaps just the offending sound bank would be good enough?

-Matt

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[quote="ben":3o1xpprm]How are you building the FSB only? Designer always builds the FEV whenever you hit "Build". The only way to build just the FSB would be to use the FSBankEx tool, which it doesn’t sound like you’re doing.[/quote:3o1xpprm]

My mistake I meant FEV only…. sorry ๐Ÿ˜ณ

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Hi Matt,

Thanks for the info.

Were those the only differences in the fdp’s that you found? If not, can you provide the fdp’s (before and after step 1 if possible, and after step 5) as we suspect there may have been differences in the order in which the waveforms were saved within the fdp. The list file always gets created if the option is checked even when the bank is not rebuilt but it should have produced the same list order for the same platform.

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the sound events of the project seem to have an index into the wavebanks they use. If you add new sound events and do not rebuild all wavebanks the sound events can get out of sync i think
cheers, manni

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[quote="ben":1h4vfb3o][quote="RichB":1h4vfb3o]I am building in designer, and yes it does only seem to happen if I build fsb only. [/quote:1h4vfb3o]
How are you building the FSB only? Designer always builds the FEV whenever you hit "Build". The only way to build just the FSB would be to use the FSBankEx tool, which it doesn’t sound like you’re doing.

[quote="AnimusSonitus":1h4vfb3o]For me it’s always been sounds from different wave banks getting confused. In these cases, I was rebuilding a changed bank only.

Interestingly, these problems only came to my attention in most cases because other users would inform of the problem after grabbing the updates over Perforce. In more than one instance, the FEV/FSBs performed fine on my machine where I had compiled them locally, but for people that received them over the network only, there were problems. Maybe it had something to do with the cache files that I had and they didn’t?[/quote:1h4vfb3o]
The cache files are only used during the build process, so I don’t think that’s the problem. The situation you describe sounds suspiciously like Perforce is screwing up the files when you check them in. Maybe it’s treating them as text files or something?[/quote:1h4vfb3o]

No, they’re all treated as binary.

Would it help if I sent you some compiled files that had these cross-reference problems? I might be able to dig through the revs and find something for you.

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Good news: we’ve been able to repro this consistantly and have a fix ready for next week’s release of designer. The reordering only seem to happen when reopening a project after adding or removing waveforms.

Here are steps we used in reproducing this:

  1. Open project
  2. Add waveforms
  3. Build
  4. Save and exit
  5. Reopen project
  6. Build

If there are a large number of waveforms, there’s a good chance some reordering takes place.

We’ve changed how designer orders the waveforms internally which should fix the problem.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful info ๐Ÿ˜€

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yeah that makes sense, but this is when I build a project. We have just moved to a newer fmod version so I will see if I still get it with that (version 4.21.01)

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[quote="RichB":39p95tf4]My mistake I meant FEV only…. sorry :oops:[/quote:39p95tf4]

Ah, ok, that makes more sense :-) If you change wave banks, then obviously they need to be rebuilt. If you have all wave banks selected when you click Build in the build dialog, Designer tries to only build those banks which need to be built.

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Do a rebuild all just to be safe.

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[quote="AnimusSonitus":1l2hg8gt]Would it help if I sent you some compiled files that had these cross-reference problems? I might be able to dig through the revs and find something for you.[/quote:1l2hg8gt]
Yeah, if it’s not too much trouble – we might be able to figure out what’s going on. We’d need to see the FEV, FSBs, and the FDP they were built from. Also, a description of the sounds that are broken would help :-)

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One of my peers got this same thing on a different project where all the sounds become confused and play gunshots for menu sounds etc.
This project was not built over a network either so its not that.
Has anyone seen this before?

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I had this happen to me today, after duplicating some events and then in the event editor, replacing the sounds with different sound definitions…

I definitely build all the media for Nintendo Wii and PC and there were all sorts of wrong sounds playing.

After quitting FMOD designer, loading it up and then rebuilding all media files, it was ok.

No network drives for media involved here. I’m using FMOD designer 4.21.01 still (hopefully going to upgrade soon!)

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[quote="RichB":3ijghb29]One of my peers got this same thing on a different project where all the sounds become confused and play gunshots for menu sounds etc.
This project was not built over a network either so its not that.
Has anyone seen this before?[/quote:3ijghb29]

I’ve seen it dozens of times, and it only seems to occur when I add new waveforms and then build only the changed wave bank. Build All always fixes it.

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Thanks for the report! I have put this issue in our tracker and we will look into it.

[quote="mattconnolly":yp07dll5]After quitting FMOD designer, loading it up and then rebuilding all media files, it was ok.[/quote:yp07dll5]
That’s good to know – it’ll help us track down the cause.

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[quote="AnimusSonitus":38hse8tl]I’ve seen it dozens of times, and it only seems to occur when I add new waveforms and then build only the changed wave bank. Build All always fixes it.[/quote:38hse8tl]

This is a little issue that needs fixing though if others are experierencing it?

I know its minor but still ! :)

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Unfortunately, we haven’t been able to reproduce these cases.

If anyone can do this constistantly, please send us an fdp and any step-by-step instructions or details that can help us track down the cause.

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[quote="AnimusSonitus":399z8z2p][quote="RichB":399z8z2p]One of my peers got this same thing on a different project where all the sounds become confused and play gunshots for menu sounds etc.
This project was not built over a network either so its not that.
Has anyone seen this before?[/quote:399z8z2p]

I’ve seen it dozens of times, and it only seems to occur when I add new waveforms and then build only the changed wave bank. Build All always fixes it.[/quote:399z8z2p]

This issue is usually caused by the FEV and FSB files getting out of sync. Are the sounds that are getting confused in the changed wave bank, or in other banks? Are you building the changed wave bank in Designer (sounds like you are, but just to be sure)? If not, are you rebuilding the FEV as well?

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Hi, I have kept aside a bunch of project files that did this. I just need to get permission to send you assets that belong to our publisher !

Would it be helpful to have the broken version as well as the normal one? So you could possibly see where things are failing? There will be new events in the non broken one abviously as its being worked on.

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[quote="ben]This issue is usually caused by the FEV and FSB files getting out of sync. Are the sounds that are getting confused in the changed wave bank, or in other banks? Are you building the changed wave bank in Designer (sounds like you are, but just to be sure)? If not, are you rebuilding the FEV as well?[/quote]

Yes I would say mostly the confused sounds are in the changed bank. However I have had one instance that are not from the changed bank when it gets confused.

I am building in designer, and yes it does only seem to happen if I build fsb only.
I have been building fev and fsb everytime for now and havnt had it since. Although as more content goes in this gets slower and slower! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Could this be fixed? Its a bit unreliable at the moment, I cant trust it !

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That would be great. Yeah, broken and working versions would be very helpful for comparison. Also, If you can remember what you did before it broke (repalced sound definitions etc) let us know.

Thanks :)

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